“Should I Join a Startup?”
Clyde's Kelly Hall Shares Tips for Moving from a Big Organization to a Startup and a Framework for Making the Decision
Kelly Hall broke a major rule of negotiation when she was interviewing for her current job at product protection startup Clyde.
She'd gotten an offer to join Clyde as VP of Channel Strategy and wanted to take it, so she went to tell her previous employer she would be resigning. But instead of accepting her resignation, they responded with a surprising counter-offer. She brought it back to her hiring manager at Clyde, who happened to also be the CEO, and waited for his response.
Using a counter-offer to drive up a starting salary is a classic negotiating move, and one that we've encouraged women to consider. But the waiting was getting to Kelly—"I was losing my mind, emotionally," she remembers—so she reached out to her former employer and told them that she couldn't accept their counter, then got back in touch with her future boss and told him what she'd done.
Even though she could've kept negotiating, Kelly wanted to start her new job off with as much transparency as possible. "I believe that honest communication pays higher dividends," she says. "So it was important to me to let him know that I had officially declined the counteroffer."
What are rules good for, anyways? They're guidelines to help you get what you need, and when they work, that's great. But Kelly learned that following her instincts and her values got her to where she needed to be in the end. (Including with her offer: Clyde's CEO came back with what she calls "a very compelling addition to the original offer," even after knowing she'd turned the counter down. She accepted it and joined the team a couple of months ago.)
We sat down with Kelly to talk about her career path, the framework she used when deciding to leave a large, established company to join Clyde (a startup), and her tips for other women who are negotiating job offers with startups.
From startups to major players and back again
Kelly's current role as VP of Channel Strategy at Clyde has her focusing on understanding new verticals and markets, determining how to position the company within them to reach their target market. Though she's excited to be part of a fast-growing team, she acknowledges that for her, having worked for enterprise-level companies helped her to get to this point. "Personally, I think I'm in a better position to be successful because I'm bringing experience into the startup. I don't know that I would've been able to pull this off as my first or second gig; I wouldn't have had the foresight or experience to really shake things up had I made this leap earlier," she explains.
When Kelly kicked off her career in sales, it was with a small company called Hands On Systems that provided billing for mobile carriers right as mobile and internet technology were converging. "It was literally guys in their garage who built this platform," she says. She loved the fast-paced nature of scaling her sales as the market grew.
When that company was acquired by Verisign, she found herself transitioning into a much more structured environment. "It was 'small and scrappy' versus 'large and secure,'" says Kelly. "In a smaller organization, you have the opportunity to touch things more directly, which I love. But there's something to be gained from working at a larger organization that has tremendous resources and support."
Kelly then spent several years working with other big players (Asurion and AmTrust) before she met the Clyde CEO and COO, Brandon Gell and Jereme Holiman, at the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas this year. She'd been running into issues in her sales cycle and realized she didn't have the resources to solve them. "It started to be apparent that a partnership with Clyde could move forward some of my other deals," she says. Kelly set up a dinner with their team, thinking they could discuss that objective. She walked out of the dinner with a job offer.
Deciding to make the leap: a framework for joining a startup
Kelly didn't take the job immediately. Although she was very interested, she wanted to make sure to do her due diligence. Her process for deciding went as follows:
- First, she checked the financials. She wanted to make sure that the company was well set up financially, so she asked the founders to circle back with her once they'd raised their Series A round of funding.
- Then Kelly asked for investor access, with the goal of understanding their belief in the company. "The bigger the investor, the more open the dialogue, I found," says Kelly, who encourages women considering taking a high-level role at a startup to do the same. "It lends insight from another perspective."
- She also wanted to make sure she liked the people and not just the investors. "I've always prioritized working in a company with people you really like. And that was my experience with the Clyde team," says Kelly, who appreciates the company's focus on creating a positive working environment with a diverse group of employees.
- It was also important for Kelly to understand the role and its growth potential. "A startup gives you an opportunity to do a lot of different things—including stuff you're probably not even qualified for," she says, smiling. "I asked questions around the role itself, but also how I'd interact with other projects because I think it's really important to own your career path."
- Then it was time to listen to her intuition. "It's our greatest ally," she says. "If you listen, the answers are always there." She was excited about the company and their vision and knew it was the right move for her. "It felt like their platform was just coming at the perfect time. This industry needs it."
Before officially accepting the job, Kelly asked herself three questions she'd learned from a previous mentor for how to evaluate a new opportunity:
- "Am I being paid fairly? Am I learning? And am I having fun?"
Clyde seemed like it would check all of those boxes for her, so it was time to move forward—and into that fateful negotiation.
Negotiating salaries at a startup as a woman
To prepare for her salary negotiation, Kelly did start by following the "rules." First, she did her research on what the market range looked like for the role. "Sometimes we miss that step and go in with a growth percentage on top of our previous salary, thinking, 'Oh, if I can just get 10% more than I'm making now, I'll be happy.'" she says. But she wanted to have a solid base rooted in fact, so she came up with a number that she felt represented her worth and the market.
"Then you beef it up a little bit," she says. "Go for it, but don't get too crazy!"
That's the number she went into the negotiations with. As she was working through Clyde's offer, her then-employer's counter, and the final package, she had to consider equity and other benefits, too. "Even though I obviously believe in the vision, my advice is that you can't really bank on equity," she says.
One thing that did stand out to her as a clear pro and added value (beyond salary), was Clyde's open vacation policy. "Early in my career, I was wired to believe that being busy and not taking vacation was a medal of honor. And I learned very quickly that it's just going to burn you out. I really loved that Clyde's policy is to take as much vacation as you'd like as long as you're performing," she says. She was pleased with the company's vacation fund matching, too, where employees can allocate a percentage of their paychecks for vacations, which Clyde matches up to a certain point.
"You have to look at your package from both a financial perspective as well as flexibilities or perks that go a long way in terms of your mental space and happiness in your role," says Kelly.
Even though she was negotiating this particular offer just as the Coronavirus pandemic was beginning, Kelly didn't settle for less than what she thought she deserved. "Barring situations where your livelihood is at risk, you shouldn't lose sight of your worth," she says.
And as we revealed above, it all worked out. She suggests that women looking to join startups follow her same approach—even if it means backing off from some of the traditional ways of negotiating. "In trust-basedrelationships, there's really no negotiation," she says. "If you know your value and your company knows your value, it's really just a discussion on what will make it feel like you're making the right decision."
Kelly's first few weeks with the Clyde team have confirmed to her that she did indeed make the right decision. If you're interested in joining her, follow Clyde's page for updates on open roles.
4 Tips for Navigating Startups, Mastering Sales, and Growing from Individual Contributor to SVP:
A Conversation with VideoAmp's Alli Felter
Alli Felter likes competition. Challenge her to a game of soccer or a sing-off, and she'll be there, ready to give it her all.
That made a career in sales a natural fit.
She found her way into the field early on. It helped that her dad was a long-time salesman. Then an early internship cinched her interest. Even while she was cold calling 100 people a day and getting a bit tongue-tied when someone was actually interested, she loved the work. Her internship turned into a part-time job during college, where although she worked just six hours a week, she was outperforming full-time employees. That's when she realized the first of several sales (and life) lessons that helped her on her path to becoming an SVP of Account Sales at advertisement investment platform VideoAmp just eight years out of college: quality of work is more important than quantity of work.
We're excited to share some of Alli's tips for building a career in sales, particularly in fast-paced startup environments.
1. Be strategic as to how you spend your time
"It's not necessarily how long you work or how many emails you send," says Alli. "The important thing is to focus on the quality of your work and to consider the bigger picture." For Alli, that means taking a long view and investing in herself to make sure she can bring her best self to work. "I think a lot about what's going to have the greatest influence on my overall success—not just tomorrow, but a couple of months from now and beyond. Missing workouts and eating like crap may mean I can cram a couple more things in, but longer term, it's unhealthy and it impacts your relationships with clients and colleagues, which are pivotal to the success of your career. It definitely makes it easier to focus on this balance when working for a company that makes health and wellness such a priority. VideoAmp offers daily workouts and really encourages us to make time for fitness and mental breaks."
2. Create value-based relationships
Alli credits her career—and her rapid ascension to a leadership role—to her hard work and the strength of her relationships.
Several years ago, Alli found herself in the final stages of the interview process with a company she was excited about. She called a client-turned-confidant—someone she'd worked with at another job and whose opinion she respected—to get her advice on whether she should take the offer. The ex-client told Alli that before she said yes, she should check out VideoAmp, where the ex-client had just joined. Alli zoomed through the interview process in a couple of days and ended up getting an offer from VideoAmp, too.
That new opportunity presented itself only because Alli had invested in the relationship long before it was time to ask for advice or a favor.
As a saleswoman, and now with a team of 20 people reporting to her, Alli has a rule: never just "check in." This applies to networking as well as relationship building with clients and prospects.
"Just 'checking in' is my least favorite thing to do. If you're reaching out to someone, what is the value you're offering that you feel is worth them giving back to you?" she says.
3. Evaluate job opportunities with this framework: people, mission, funding
With two offers in hand, Alli had to buckle down and figure out which company was right for her in the long run. Having worked for a company she'd loved, followed by a company she didn't like so much, she assessed why she loved the first company and what she found lacking in the second. From there, she created a framework to evaluate her options.
"I really think that asking the right questions before you join an organization is key. Make sure you share and understand their views and support their mission, this will enable you to flourish and grow in your personal life and as well as your professional life," says Alli.
She realized the first key factor in evaluating a startup is understanding what the people are like. "Is every single person at the company just unbelievably excited to be there? Do they have that energy? And do you feel something when you're speaking to them? I think a lot of companies underestimate the importance of culture. You can tell when colleagues like each other, when they want to spend time with each other, and when they genuinely feel like they're in it together," says Alli. "And I felt that with VideoAmp from the moment I started the interview process."
The second factor to consider is the mission and whether the company knows what they are building towards. "Do they know what problem they are trying to solve?" she asks. "It's okay if it's not entirely clear how they'll get there—being part of the problem-solving is why many people are attracted to startups—but knowing where they're headed is key," says Alli. "At that time, VideoAmp was about powering the convergence of linear TV and digital to enable brand marketers to make better decisions between desktop, mobile, tablet, OTT, and then the big screen or television," she says. "And today, we really have been able to do so effectively."
Don't be swayed just by a fun team and an exciting mission, though. Alli advises that anyone considering a role with a startup be a realist, too, and ask to see the numbers on funding. "That has a huge, huge impact, especially in the startup world, on what kinds of programs a company is able to offer, what kinds of things they're able to do, how they're able to take care of employees and how they're able to build a presence and a name in the industry," she says. When she was interviewing with VideoAmp, they had just closed their series A round of funding and Alli felt comfortable enough with their growth path and potential to sign-on. Looking back, she's confident she made the right choice: "Right now, we've raised over a hundred million dollars to help us continue on this journey of solving our mission," she says.
If you've gotten an offer from a startup you like that passes Alli's criteria, she suggests you take it: "I challenge people to pursue opportunities outside of their comfort zone and to be scrappy — to have the power to drive towards a goal and build something that doesn't exist."
4. Identify your leadership style and use it to lift up others
When Alli was an account executive at VideoAmp, she was an individual contributor, which meant clear metrics for success: she needed to produce a certain amount of revenue and have a certain number of meetings.
But as she became a VP and then SVP, she had to shift her focus from her own performance to start focusing on building competency in others. She says she learned that "managing is about creating a mindset and a culture that you want to facilitate and foster."
Creating that culture has meant learning to not have all the answers and allowing your team to grow into their own working styles. "One of the things my mentor at VideoAmp, Laura Tormey, has taught me is to lead by example. It's important to create a framework for people to be successful but to also trust them to figure it out on their own. Show your team how to do something, instead of telling them what to do, and then watch how they make it their own," she says.
Three of the sales leads who work for her are women—"which is really, really rare for a sales organization," notes Alli. She wants to create a culture that encourages and empowers all employees, especially women.
"I try to promote speaking up and grabbing a seat at the table. You're not going to get what you don't ask for," she says. "I'm also always mindful of the words used to describe women's working styles, because language really matters. A woman can be perceived as bossy or aggressive, when really, she is just being direct. I try to create an open dialogue and conversation to empower my female colleagues."
Do you have questions for Alli about working in sales as a woman, growing into a VP or SVP role, or navigating the world of startups? Leave a comment below!
Cocktails + Conversations with Fast-Growing New York Startups
If you are a skilled tech professional based in the New York area and you'd like to attend this event, please email events@powertofly.com to be considered for an invite.
PowerToFly has partnered with some fast-growing New York-based startups to present an evening of tech talks and networking, highlighting the amazing women tech leaders at these innovative companies. Come and enjoy a glass of wine with these impressive women tech leaders!
This invite-only event will be held on Wednesday, July 17th from 6pm to 8:30pm at AWS Loft, located at 350 W. Broadway, and will feature tech talks, product demos, an audience Q&A, and plenty of time to network with your peers over food and drinks. Although this programming is geared toward women's experiences, we welcome all genders at our events. Be sure to RSVP today - space is limited!
Featured companies will include:
2U, Inc. is a global leader in education technology that has been improving lives by powering world-class digital education. As a trusted partner and brand steward of great universities, 2U builds, delivers, and supports online graduate programs and certificates for working adults. The 2U team includes 2,800 individuals across nine offices worldwide who share a common belief in the power of higher education to transform lives for the better. 2U's amazing benefits include full tuition reimbursement, 401k matching, and unlimited PTO.
Plectica is changing the way people visualize and connect information through visual mapping software. Plectica is a simple and easy tool to map out and organize just about anything, inspired by how the brain works. Their clients include Uber, ADP, and GE.Agenda (Subject to Change):
- 6:00pm - Check-In & Networking over Food & Drinks
- 6:30pm - Event Kickoff from PowerToFly
- 6:35pm - Tech Talks + Audience Q&A featuring women tech leaders
- 7:25pm - Networking continues over Food & Drinks
The night will include complimentary wine, non-alcoholic beverages, food, and fun swag
About AWS Loft: The AWS Lofts are a place where startups and developers can meet over coffee, work on their apps, attend educational sessions, and get in-person answers to AWS technical questions – all at no cost. Gain hands-on experience through free technical workshops on serverless, containers, IoT, and more. Or, sharpen your business acumen by attending best practice sessions that include PR, legal, and fundraising. Plus, network and learn first-hand from other hot startups, VCs, and accelerators.
About our Events: All attendees who RSVP are welcome, regardless of race, color, religion, national origin, gender identity, pregnancy, physical or mental disability, or age. If you require assistance to fully participate in this event, please email hi@powertofly.com, and we will contact you to discuss your specific needs.
Unfortunately, PowerToFly and its Partners cannot admit outside recruiters to this particular event. Please email hi@powertofly.com if you have any questions about this policy.
Virtual Tech Talk with Women Engineering Leaders at DigitalOcean
Want to join this webinar and learn more? Email us at hi@powertofly.com to be considered for an invite.
PowerToFly is thrilled to partner with DigitalOcean (a dynamic, fast-growing startup that serves a robust and passionate community of developers, teams, and businesses around the world) to present a virtual tech talk and audience Q&A with several of their women tech leaders.
The webinar will take place on Tuesday, May 7th at 1:00pm EST / 10:00am PST.
After the tech talk, PowerToFly Cofounder and President Katharine Zaleski will lead a brief panel discussion with several of DigitalOcean's women engineering leaders, discussing their career journeys, current projects, and what it's like working for a mostly remote company.
Panelists
- Limor Bergman Gross, Director, Engineering
- Alexis Bruemmer, Senior Manager, Engineering
- Swati Gaikwad, Engineer II
- Jenni Griesmann, Senior Engineer I
Tech Talk Speaker:
- Sneha Inguva, Engineer II
Although you don't need to be looking for new job opportunities to attend the webinar, DigitalOcean does have a number of open remote roles. In fact, about 70% of DigitalOcean's engineering team works remotely! Their competitive benefits include monthly gym reimbursements, monthly commute allowances, and a 401k with up to a 4% employer match. To learn more about DigitalOcean's open roles, visit their page on PowerToFly.
About our webinars: All RSVP'd attendees are welcome, regardless of race, color, religion, national origin, gender identity, pregnancy, physical or mental disability, or age.
